WEDNESDAY OPEN FORUM: What's on your mind?

Post comments below on any issue you want. The only limitations: the ground rules listed at the left and your own imagination. I'll reply when appropriate. Have fun. dc

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Comments

[DanielC]

Found at:

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/archive/2008/05/13/what-hillary-s-thinking-wv-edition.aspx

What I thought was a wonderful insight into why she is still here.
Mother knows best, so don't question Mother.

"...
Reply by hemlock41:

"Hillary is simply and utterly convinced she is the most electable, most qualified candidate. That may be arrogant.. But if it's something she really and truly believes... it must be awfully hard to walk away from."

This is what I find most unsettling about Clinton: her absolutist faith in her own judgment. She never seems to entertain even the possibility that she might be wrong, that her judgment may be fallible or partial, or that her perspective on an issue might not be the only reasonable one. The accounts of how she steam-rolled those supporters of universal health care who sought to modify her specific proposals in the 90's reflects this authoritarian, "fundamentalist" streak in her character.

It's not coincidental that she has so much appeal to older women. She has won their support in part through deploying her experience/status as a mother. Maternalism, though it has a caring face, is completely authoritarian. Motherhood is an identity that has,for many older women, afforded them the only significant form of social power they've experienced in their lives. "Mothers know best." They are socially licensed to impose their will on those whom they take care of. Clinton's maternalist authoritarian streak is something many older women can identify with; for many of them, the role of motherhood was the only real source of social recognition available to them, and it is central to their self-understanding.

I think this may also be related to the sense of grievance that older women have about Clinton's being supplanted in this race by Obama. Motherhood is a source of social standing; but it's also subtly dissed and not-so-subtly sidelined by society -- this was especially true for older generations. So, when older women see Clinton being overshadowed by a flashier, younger guy, it's not surprising that it taps into a deep-seated sense of grievance and frustration. After all, their own status as mothers gave them absolute power within a limited range of relationships while simultaneously marginalizing them within society more broadly. These women, of course, do not focus on the fact that Obama has legitimately earned frontrunner status, by following all the rules. They just assume it's the same old dynamic: pat the woman approvingly on the back as you push her out of the public spotlight.

Clinton's maternalist authoritarianism is unsettling not just because it would lead to bad policies if she were elected. It is also an amazingly condescending and anti-democratic attitude: it accounts for the view I've heard many Clinton supporters express about Obama's supporters. Her supporters seem unable to entertain the possibility that his supporters like him for substantive, rational, policy-based reasons. They insist, instead, that his supporters are just in love with "the concept" of him. (E.g. Ferraro.) "They are all young and infatuated," her supporters insist, "So we party elders -- we 'wise mothers' -- must step in and do what we know is best for everyone, even if it means overriding their votes and the party's rules."

Maybe I'm pushing the "maternalist" analysis too far here. But I can't help thinking that it explains at least some of what's going on in the camp of Clinton supporters.

May 14, 2008 1:23 AM

..."

*Starts humming a song*

"...
Mother, do you think they'll drop the bomb?
Mother, do you think they'll like this song?
Mother, do you think they'll try to break my balls?
Mother, should I build the wall?
Mother, should I run for President?
Mother, should I trust the government?
Mother, will they put me in the firing line?
Is it just a waste of time?

Hush now baby, baby, don't you cry
Momma's gonna make all of your nightmares come true
Momma's gonna put all of her fears into you
Momma's gonna keep you right here under her wing
She won't let you fly, but she might let you sing
Momma's will keep Baby cozy and warm
Oooo Babe
Oooo Babe
Ooo Babe, of course Momma's gonna help build the wall
"
Pink Floyd - The Wall
Mother

http://www.lyrics007.com/Pink%20Floyd%20Lyrics/Mother%20Lyrics.html

Glad to have ya back, and Hope all is well!

DanielC in SC

[Denney Clements]

In my view, this nation could benefit from some good material instincts at the top. The father-knows-best cockiness of the current president hasn't worked out all that well.

dc

[Richard L. Wolfe]

Denny, Just what cockiness of the current president are you talking about?

[Dr. James E. Dunn]

Richard:

If you don't see the "cockiness" that Bush usually displays in his public meetings/press conferences, then you really need some perceptual help!

DrJED

[Bob Williams]

Daniel, couldn't ya just say it's not over til it's over? But anyway, nice post.

[Catherine Jameson]

I mentioned the earthquake in China today to a few of my co-workers and they just didn't have a clue what I was talking about. But now I have "pulled up" the The Sun News and the entire page is filled with motorcycle "news"...I looked and looked: "DUI Indiana cyclist carrying concealed weapon" "Somebody else is tattooing somebody else" and on and on. Please don't perpetuate the ignorance...take a chance; publish something worth reading. Publish what is happening in the world not just at Suck, Bang & Blow.

[DanielC]

*snicker*

Bob,

Man, you missed my message. Sorry.

Let me limit it to one line so you can get my point:

"
Momma's gonna make all of your nightmares come true
"

Billary IMHO would be the worst thing for this country. Her total authoritarian approach to the monarchy would fubar us for years to come worst than Lord Cheney has done.

But, yes it's not over till it's over. Watch those Repub delegate fights. *wink*

DSC

[DanielC]

Catherine,

I commented on this fact the other day on my Beach Banter. Not so much aimed at The Sun, but the US Press corp as a whole:
http://www.danielscochran.com/dscblog/?p=96

It's a bloody shame we have to go to China, Europe, Asia or else where to get world news on the US.

DSC

[Nick]

BBCAmerica has a great news program on in the evenings.

Well, the motorcycle thing is more local, and currently happening. If they didn't cover stuff like that, people like you Catherine would be complaining too.